Nicholas Milburn – a "dark horse" from Louisiana (US) that you probably haven't heard of yet. Though he’s not a professional climber, he easily could be—his climbing speaks for itself!
Nicholas works as a software engineer and in his spare time he sends some of the most difficult sport climbing routes and boulders in America! With ascents like Dreamcatcher or Algorithm (both French 9a, American 5.14d) he belongs to the elite group of climbers capable of climbing such an elite grade. He also showcases his strength on boulder problems, with standout ascents like Mind Shift (V14/8B+) in Tennessee and Paint it Black (V15/8C) in the Rocky Mountains.
Recently, he visited the Czech Republic, putting his strength and mental resilience to the test on the towering sandstone walls of Labské Pískovce (Elbe Valley). He definitely took some Czech sand grains home with him, figuratively and literally. You can catch a glimpse of his experience in a short video on his Instagram, @nikolaimilburn, showcasing some of his climbs in the Elbe Valley.
Want to find out more? What is the difference in approach to bouldering between intermediate and elite climbers? Who inspires Nicholas on those tough days when motivation runs low? And how does he balance performance with the pure joy of climbing?
Read the next interview in the series STORIES with US OCÚN Ambassador Nicholas Milburn.
Interview with Nicholas
Hi Nicholas, Could you please introduce yourself briefly to the readers? Who are you? Where do you live? What do you do for a living and what are your passions?
Briefly answer who I am? If only I knew myself well enough to answer that question in a few sentences.
Anyway, I like to cook. I like to bake. I like climbing a lot, purely the act of climbing itself. Sure, I like my climbs to be challenging, but mostly I enjoy good movement that brings me joy. Sometimes I find that movement on a famous route such as Biographie, sometimes on a heinously sandbagged 6c+ like Le Petit Martien and sometimes I find it while climbing a particularly cool tree.
Currently, I live in Boulder, Colorado, but originally I am from Lafayette, Louisiana, which are two very different places to be. Professionally, I am a software engineer. As an undergraduate, I studied physiology, and I took that knowledge and went to graduate school to study computer science with a focus on data science. Now, I use none of those specific areas of focus; rather, I work on back-end systems for a decently sized tech company dealing with credit cards.
Nicholas: "I enjoy the good climbing movement. Sometimes I find it on a famous route such as Biographie, sometimes on a heinously sandbagged 6c+ like Le Petit Martien and sometimes I find it while climbing a particularly cool tree."
You started climbing at a very young age. When you were 8, you were already leading your first routes. Looking back, do you see this as an advantage, or if you could go back in time, would you rather have preferred more varied activities and more versatility in sports?
I was raised in a climbing family, so I was around climbing all my life, but I wouldn’t say I specialized too early. My parents never forced me into it beyond early exposure. I spent a lot of my early days just playing in the dirt while my parents climbed. As I got older, I became more motivated to climb, but that was my choice. I decided to put more effort into the climbing because because I found I enjoyed the movement.
My parents were supportive and enabled me to pursue the climbing in the way I have. My mom in particular helped me manage my fear of falling by pushing me take a bunch of lead falls, whichI’m really grateful for now.
I think my greatest strength in climbing is my ability to move intuitively on the wall. My early start helped greatly with that, but I also think the diversity of activities I did growing up helped with that, including unicycling.
Nicholas: “Everything we do comes together to create who we are.”
Many of us, European climbers, would love to go climbing in America at least once in a lifetime. Legendary climbing areas such as Yosemite, Indian Creek, and Joshua Tree strongly attract us. Which area should climbers from Europe not miss? What kind of climbing does your home area, Boulder, offer along with the surroundings of Colorado?
Honestly, I would say skip Colorado and go to the Southeast. I’m sure many people will scoff when they read this, and they have good reasons for doing so, but Colorado is not my preferred climbing in the US (except Rifle, I love that place). Colorado has a bit of a Hollywood effect in that a vast portion of the climbing media comes out of Colorado, so it is overly represented. That high degree of visibility puts it at the top of everyone's “to experience” list. Colorado climbing has two big draws: its year-round conditions and the vast collection of hard boulder problems. If either of those things piques your interest, then Colorado climbing is for you.
I think the top-quality southeastern sandstone is one of the United States’ greatest climbing assets. I have spent a lot of my climbing life going to Tennessee and Alabama to climb on that sweet southern sandstone. The rock in that part of the country is some of the best in the world. Even though I haven’t seen all the rock everywhere, I still feel confident in that statement. The movement itself is beautiful. It’s just a pleasure to move through rock that is more about flowing body movement than crushing jagged crimps on broken blocks. Of course, it’s all personal preference. In the eastern part of the US, the Red River Gorge and the New River Gorge are two other world-class sandstone areas that are worthy.
Nicholas: "The rocks in the southeastern sandstone regions of the US are some of the best in the world. I haven't seen all the rocks in the world, but I still feel confident in that statement..."
How does it feel to climb boulders of V15 (8C) difficulty? Can you make it a bit more familiar to intermediate climbers who climb about V8 to V10 grades? Do you have any advice on how to train and what to do to move up gradually in difficulty?
I’m not sure the climbing itself is all that different, but there are differences in how intermediate climbers and high-level climbers approach a boulder. The intermediate climber may show up to a boulder, throw all the pads down, and start sessioning. When high-level climbers show up to a boulder, they might stack all the pads up and climb on top to feel all the holds. They try to gather as much information as possible while exerting as little energy as possible. When they start climbing, they are still focused on gathering information and only try from the bottom when they have all the beta they need. They know they have a limited number of attempts before they get too tired and experience diminishing returnsThe climbing part may look the same, but more advanced climbers pay a lot of attention to fine details that make big differences over time.
Furthermore, high-level climbers understand that just because something feels extremely hard, doesn’t mean it's impossible. Even if they can’t do the moves that day, they do not assume they cannot do ever. They may decide they need to train to be better prepared, but they do not write it off as impossible.
Nicholas: "High-level climbers understand that just because something feels extremely hard, that does not make it impossible."
How did you prepare for the boulder called The Game (V15/8C)? How much time did you spend with training and how long did it take you to send it? How was the whole process?
I didn’t train specifically for The Game. In the years leading up to it, I was bouldering well, ticking off a solid number of hard problems and feeling like I had good momentum. I even remember thinking I should probably slow down and let my body rest.
Then I entered a local bouldering competition and was climbing well, until the finals, when I blew a pulley on the first boulder. I spent the next few months recovering and doing physical therapy. But I was still motivated, so I started looking for a good comeback boulder. Since The Game is conveniently close if you live in Boulder, I decided to give it a shot.
I was a little surprised to learn how subtly technical The Game is. Ben Burkhalter and I spent about half the time remarking on how difficult it was to learn how to grab the first hold. The difference between the right spot and the wrong spot was some unmeasurable mystical crystal difference, but it was learnable over time.
It took me about six days that season to send it. Over the years, I had tried The Game a few times, but I was never strong enough to do all the moves until that year. I spent plenty of days just driving up the canyon to brush snow off the top which was a bit time-consuming, but that’s just part of the process when you live in a place that snows.
Nicholas: "The difference between the right spot and the wrong spot was some unmeasurable mystical crystal difference, but it was learnable over time."
Nicholas and our climbing shoes
Nicholas has taken a liking to our Ozone climbing shoes, and it’s easy to see why. With their asymmetrical shape, precision-engineered 3-Force System, sticky toe patch, and a perfectly fitting heel, they offer outstanding support on micro edges, crimps, and pockets. The level of precision and sensitivity in these shoes is next level, making them a perfect choice for technical climbing and bouldering.
Find out more
Who is your biggest inspiration? What do you use to keep yourself motivated and driven during challenging times in life?
I try to take inspiration from a lot of different places. Of course, Chris Sharma is high on my list. When I was starting to feel unmotivated to go bouldering, I just watched Sharma’s video of Biographie, and suddenly I remembered how much I wanted to do that route.
I find the work that Jimmy Webb puts into boulder development very admirable. The way Daniel Woods can crush holds and do whatever he wants once he grabs one is incredible. The way Margo Hayes danced up Biographie was a beautiful and elegant execution of rock climbing. Michaela Kiersch’s grit to do The Golden Ticket even though it had an extra dyno nobody else had to do. I also really admire that she took 5.14c even though it was probably harder than that. Her accomplishment spoke for itself.
David Graham for his technical wizardry, deep understanding of climbing movement, and his ability to articulate that movement. I admire Greg Kerzhner’s decision to balance his software engineering career with his climbing.
I haven’t struggled much with motivation, but I’ve definitely had my ups and downs, and I’ve learned to accept them. If I’m not feeling psyched to train hard or commit to a big project, I just focus on whatever feels fun.
I used to keep a note card in my wallet that said, ‘Remember how bad you want it.’ It was a little reminder of the drive I know I have inside me, especially on those days when I was feeling lazy at home.
This might sound contradictory, and that’s because there isn’t just one path forward. Sometimes, the best approach is to slow down and relax. Other times, it’s about buckling down, pushing through, and putting in the hard work. The real challenge is knowing which one is right in the moment.
Nicholas: "There is no one path forward. Sometimes it is best to chill out and relax. Sometimes it is best to buckle down, suck it up and work hard. The trick is knowing which one is better at the moment."
And what about balance in climbing? I mean the one between performance and pushing forward vs. climbing just for the pure joy of movement?
When I was a wee lad, still top-roping at youth competitions, I was interviewed at youth nationals. The interviewer asked why I rock climb, and what motivated me to keep pushing. I responded simply, “It’s fun.” For a long time, it was a joke in my family about how inarticulate I was. I was self-conscious about it for a while, but now I’m proud of that answer, and I still feel it to be true. I climb because it is fun.
I feel proud when I train hard to reach some distant goal. I feel proud when I push myself deep into a runout that scares me. I can whip off the final moves of my project, scream in frustration, and still feel pleased with myself by the time my feet touch the ground. I value the experience of trying new climbs and that of honing in on one. The joy of movement can be found anywhere. All you have to do is look around.
Nicholas: “The joy of movement can be found anywhere. All you have to do is look around.”
You climbed a famous and very difficult route called Flex Luthor first ascended by Tommy Caldwell. How would you classify it and what did this particular route mean to you?
Flex Luthor is the most complex climb I’ve ever done, and I truly enjoyed the experience. When I first arrived at the cliff, it looked like no one had touched the route in years. The only sign of previous attempts was the bolts, otherwise, the holds were dirty, sometimes packed with dirt, loose in places, and completely free of chalk. Just getting the draws on took some effort.
The only beta I had was a couple of short sequences from Reel Rock’s Instagram and some general guidelines from Ben Spannuth on the crux boulder. But beyond that, there were still plenty of sequences I had to figure out on my own.
After a few days of trying to learn the beta, I was still flummoxed, so I called Matty Hong, and he walked me through his entire sequence over the phone. With his help, I was finally able to lock in a sequence and start refining it. I love that discovery process.
First ascensionists experience that all the time, but I was feeling it on a route that had already been climbed by three people and I was still blown away.
For context, I’m pretty damn good at finding beta. When we grade climbs, we don’t typically factor in the effort of discovery. I’m not saying we should, but it’s something worth reflecting on. Going in blind versus studying every YouTube video beforehand creates two completely different experiences. I recommend trying both, each has something valuable to teach.
Nicholas: "Going in blind and going after reviewing all the YouTube videos changes the experience entirely.”
You have recently visited the Czech Republic and the unique rock area the “Elbe Valley” (read more about the area in this article: Czech sandstone paradise "LABÁK"). What do you think about this area? How did you like the local climbing style and ethics? Can you compare it to any climbing in America and what surprised you the most?
I knew very little about Czech climbing before I went, but Jenny and Žiži gave me a quick rundown on the ethics, history, and what to expect. The movement and rock reminded me a lot of the southeastern United States. I feel very comfortable climbing on that kind of sandstone, so from that perspective, I felt right at home.
The part that new to me was the absurd runouts and unnecessary danger of it all. I loved it. The first thing I got on was about a 60m 5.11(ish) climb with 6 bolts. I think at one point, I was on a 30-meter runout. I might be exaggerating, but it doesn’t matter because if I fell, I would have certainly died.
I might risk sounding arrogant, but safely bolted 5.11 often feels a bit dull to me. However, if you strip away enough bolts to make the consequences real, the climb suddenly becomes far more engaging. I appreciate the focus that kind of climbing demands. While I generally prefer to stay safe, I also value the variety of experiences climbing has to offer.
I think style is a really important part of climbing. I’m into things like avoiding pre-clipping bolts, using the minimal viable amount of knee bars, and sticking to the OG beta. Of course, it’s all arbitrary, I just make it up as I go.
Czech climbing, though, is all about style. I got the impression that how someone climbs a route in Czechia is just as important—if not more—than simply sending it. I think that’s pretty cool.
Nicholas: "At one point I was on a 30-meter runout. I might be exaggerating, but it doesn't matter because if I fell, I would have certainly died."
How do you work with your mental mindset? Do you also train in this very important part of climbing? Climbers are quite often afraid of falling, but it's still a topic that is not talked about much in the community. What would you recommend to anyone who wants to work on themselves and push the limits of their head?
Sometimes people dismiss my thoughts on managing climbing fear, saying I ‘don’t get scared.’ That kind of bums me out. First, it’s just not true. And second, the mindset I have now didn’t come naturally, I’ve worked hard to develop it.
I was horrified by lead climbing when I started. I remember crying my way up a 5.6 with my mom belaying me. When I was old enough to lead a climb in competition, my mom made me get on a route outside and fall. Over and over and over again. Slowly climbing up the route one move at a time and taking falls all the way up. That one day didn’t cure me of my fear, but it taught me how to deal with it. I believe the technical term is “progressive desensitization." Exposing yourself to an increasingly bigger stimulus to overcome some fear is a great way to become comfortable with all kinds of fears.
I was doing exactly that while projecting Biographie a couple of months ago. I find it helpful to always push myself, even if just a little. At the end of the day, I try to find something to be proud of—there’s always something. Maybe I hit a new high point, refined my beta, took a scary whip, or just had some great snacks.
Nicholas: "I believe the technical term is “progressive desensitization”. Exposing yourself to an increasingly bigger stimulus to overcome some fear is a great way to become comfortable with all kinds of fears.”
How did you become an OCÚN ambassador and what do you appreciate in cooperation the most?
A bit of serendipity helped me become an Ocún ambassador. I was an athlete with Five Ten for about 10 years. About two and a half years ago, I met the North American Ocún marketer at my local gym. I guess I made a good impression because she recommended me as a potential athlete to Jenny. I had a meeting with Jenny and everything clicked into place.
I really appreciate being able to talk openly and freely with the team at Ocún. It feels like a true collaboration rather than just ‘representing’ a brand. I enjoy product design, and it’s rewarding to know that when I share my thoughts, someone actually reads them. Hopefully, the people going through all my design ideas find them useful!
Thanks a lot for this (deep and purposeful) interview and I hope we will hear a lot more from you in the future. Have a great day and best of luck with everything in your life. Cheers!